global cooling or warming? which one is it Al?

jarwillie · 07-03-2009, 04:46 PM

We keep hearing about how man is creating the globe to get warmer. Now scientists are saying now that the sun is calming down from it's sunspots(global warming) we will go into a global cooling period. I love the propaganda and lies the government is shoving down our throats so now everyone thinks we have to go green. Fuck off Al

FOXNews.com - Quiet Sun May Trigger Global Cooling - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News

FOXNews.com - Evidence of Global Cooling - Brit Hume | Special Report

FOXNews.com - Global Warming Is Out and Global Cooling Is In? - Brit Hume | Special Report

A researcher at Russia's oceanology institute says global warming has peaked — and the planet is now headed for a cooling period that will last through the end of the century.

Oleg Sorokhtin is a fellow of the Russian academy of natural sciences. He writes in an article for the Russian news and information agency that a cold spell will set in by 2012. H believes an even colder period will begin as solar activity reaches a minimum in 2041 — and that it will last 50 to 60 years.

Sorokhtin says warming and cooling are entirely natural processes — independent of human activity. He says the current warming trend is due to changes in things like solar activity, ocean currents, and salinity fluctuations in Arctic waters.

Meanwhile, British weather experts say 2008 will be the coolest year since 2000 because of a drop in sea surface temperatures off the western coast of South America — known as La Nina. But they say this year will still be one of the 10 hottest years on record.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by jarwillie

We keep hearing about how man is creating the globe to get warmer. Now scientists are saying now that the sun is calming down from it's sunspots(global warming) we will go into a global cooling period. I love the propaganda and lies the government is shoving down our throats so now everyone thinks we have to go green. Fuck off Al

You're SO right, I mean of COURSE we can rape mother earth of her minerals and spew noxious gas into our atmosphere and there'll be no negative side effects.

Conservation is for pussies. Even though the oil will run out in a few years we all should just enjoy it while we can and buy a hummer, at whatever price the oil magnates of the middle east decide to sell it at. Cause c'mon, they're Oil Barons and Wahabist muslims, they're sure not gonna dick us around when they have all the oil, they're SUCH nice ppl. [/sarcasm]

jarwillie · 07-03-2009, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by milesteg

You're SO right, I mean of COURSE we can rape mother earth of her minerals and spew noxious gas into our atmosphere and there'll be no negative side effects.

Conservation is for pussies. Even though the oil will run out in a few years we all should just enjoy it while we can and buy a hummer, at whatever price the oil magnates of the middle east decide to sell it at. Cause c'mon, they're Oil Barons and Wahabist muslims, they're sure not gonna dick us around when they have all the oil, they're SUCH nice ppl. [/sarcasm]

I never said we shouldn't conserve the planet earth. But the government doesn't have to "lie" to us about it just to make us live in fear.

Global warming has been proved that it wasn't human caused. If it was we wouldn't be heading into a global cooling.

Don't be pissed because you have been going on believing man made global warming and disagreeing with anyone who said it might be the suns spots, and now you are proved wrong.

going green is one big scheme to take our money.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by jarwillie

I never said we shouldn't conserve the planet earth. But the government doesn't have to "lie" to us about it just to make us live in fear.

Global warming has been proved that it wasn't human caused. If it was we wouldn't be heading into a global cooling.

Don't be pissed because you have been going on believing man made global warming and disagreeing with anyone who said it might be the suns spots, and now you are proved wrong.

going green is one big scheme to take our money.

Russian Scientists have also reported a human born with a cat's head.

One russian scientist's findings don't undo the last 25-30 years of research we've done in climatology that says that man is effecting climate change.

"Global Warming" is a misnomer that hasn't been used by anyone in the industry in over 10 years. It's called "Climate change" now. And where I agree it hasn't been proven, I'll point out that niether has gravity but all signs seem to point to the fact that mankind is severely altering his climate.

Maybe we're wrong about Climate Change and the Greenhouse Effect but if that turns out to be the case that doesn't mean we shouldn't have done all we could do when the science of the day told us it WAS the case.

But between you and me I think that scientist is fucking wrong. The Earth is the size of a penny compared with the sun. If the sun made a noticeable change in output then chances are, even a fractional change would singe every hair off of every head on the entire plamate.

jarwillie · 07-03-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by milesteg

Russian Scientists have also reported a human born with a cat's head.

One russian scientist's findings don't undo the last 25-30 years of research we've done in climatology that says that man is effecting climate change.

"Global Warming" is a misnomer that hasn't been used by anyone in the industry in over 10 years. It's called "Climate change" now. And where I agree it hasn't been proven, I'll point out that niether has gravity but all signs seem to point to the fact that mankind is severely altering his climate.

Maybe we're wrong about Climate Change and the Greenhouse Effect but if that turns out to be the case that doesn't mean we shouldn't have done all we could do when the science of the day told us it WAS the case.

But between you and me I think that scientist is fucking wrong. The Earth is the size of a penny compared with the sun. If the sun made a noticeable change in output then chances are, even a fractional change would singe every hair off of every head on the entire plamate.

I just pasted one article with the Russian just as a random article. There is several other articles with other scientists.

Just 30 years ago we were supposed to see an ice age and by the 90's we were supposed to run out of oil.

You know I am a man who believes in conserving the earth. But I feel like this has all been on big scare tactic and an easy way for the government to tax us even more for global warming research.

When the earth starts cooling down, I wonder if another movie will be made.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by jarwillie

I just pasted one article with the Russian just as a random article. There is several other articles with other scientists.

Just 30 years ago we were supposed to see an ice age and by the 90's we were supposed to run out of oil.

You know I am a man who believes in conserving the earth. But I feel like this has all been on big scare tactic and an easy way for the government to tax us even more for global warming research.

When the earth starts cooling down, I wonder if another movie will be made.

Tax us? No. If anything it's designed to tax and regulate corporations. And fuck corporations.

Scorched Earth · 07-04-2009, 12:07 AM

What the fuck are you on about in the thread Miles? Now you say gravity hasn't been proven? Care to elaborate on that, Oppenheimer?

Scorched Earth · 07-04-2009, 12:16 AM

BTW, so which is it then Miles? You are good at skirting whatever issue a particular thread is about so you can watch yourself type... but when asked you never really answer. Which is it? Global Warming or Cooling?

And while you are at it cite a successful country operating under Anarchy I have asked you that at least three times in different threads and you never answer.

milesteg · 07-04-2009, 08:49 AM

1. It's not all warming or cooling. It's a mix of both. Mainly the problem is the destruction of our ozone layer, it'll allow greater (maybe even lethal) ammounts of radiation to permeate our atmosphere, at first it gets hotter, then the icecaps melt in places they haven't melted since before the first ice age.

More water in the ocean, more water in the rivers and lakes, more rain, more clouds, colder winter.

I'm not a big "global warming/climate change/greenhouse effect" believer, don't get me wrong. I'm a skeptic down at my core...I am just making the point that our policy should reflect the current scientific experts of the day and what their findings show us, for better or worse in the long run.

Cause maybe Global Warming IS a big made up problem...but here's my problem. Science hasn't been telling us that for these last 30 years. No, the big corporations, the polluters with money to LOSE have paid Junk Scientists to advance the "Global Warming is Fake" bullshit.

Every year some new right wing scientists (with no other credits to his name other than some paid for PhD) with a grant from Dow Chemicals or Opec or Chevron comes out with some new "study" that shows global warming to be a hoax. He's usually chewed up and spit out a few minutes later which is why none of these guys stick around and why it's taking some guy in Russia to do it now.

So even if global warming is fake, there's no CREDIBLE scientific evidence yet and I'd prefer our politicians didn't drag their ass on regulating some of this shit.

Because even if our climate is okay, pollution is bad for a million other reasons, a MILLION and we both know it. Even litter is an unsightly and tragic mess.

2. Gravity is a theory. It has not been proven and will not be proven until the "Graviton" is found. IE like global warming we can see possible EFFECTS of gravity, we have data, hell you or I could drop a ball and watch it fall....but we don't know WHY. Is there some hitherto unseen subatomic particle at work? Do quarks from multiverses create the effect. We don't know! And it's fucking great! This is what science is about.

Gravity is the strongest force in the universe, it creates the universe as we know it, yet still we don't actually know what it is.....IF it is.

3. No "nation" has successfully employed anarchy as that would be a giant contradiction. An "anarchist government"??? Please, just put your cynisism aside for a second and forget all your preconcieved notions about what anarchy means, and put away your idea of a guy in a leather jacket with a big sloppy A on it.

Now I don't know what you do for a living but imagine your daily life as it is now without cops, senators and legislaters. All the civil-functions are privatized. Fire Dept, Roads, even security and Investigations. All civil functions handled by agreement between interested parties, probably even free to you and I because civility is good, no it's NECESSARY for any business or successful life.

The only difference? No one has "rights" over you or your stuff. There is no "authority". There can be civics, but not at the barrell of a gun and not exclusive to small majorities. Your control will be directly limited by your physical means of control. You can't get an army to kick down my door, I can't get an army to kick down your door.

Rape, Murder, Child Molestation, Arson and Theft would not be tolerated and much like the old west would be met with either a lynch mob of the perpetrator running far far away, beyond the lengths your sense vengeance would cause you to go after him.

There would be no mandated currency. So that no one could hoarde wealth. Everything would truly be worth what it was worth and if someone did hoarde resources, let's say tractors, then he'd be limited to hoarding only what he could personally protect himself because there'd be no cop to back him up when we robbed his greedy ass.

There would be problems. But there are problems now. It won't be a utopia but then again I don't believe any government could provide a utopia either. In fact, all any government has ever done.......hell...all any government has ever been, is just a system to keep the powerful power and disenfranchise the weak or small in number.

I say we don't need the middle man. Government allowed the petty tyrant to control entire nations rather than just his own personal backwater hovel.

All government is corrupt. Every government ever invented anywhere in the world. They're bullshit and they're unnecessary.

Think they're there for safety? America has 2 million prisoners. Now let's forget that a good 70-80% of these are NON-VIOLENT drug offenders...if all of the prisoners were released today us law-abiding citizens outnumber them 150 to 1. Now just as able bodied men between 20-40year old we STILL outnumber them about 60 to 1.

We're not in danger. We've never been in danger, from enemies within or without. These are the reasons I support anarchy and do not support war. WE ARE NOT IN DANGER FROM OUR FELLOW MAN! WE ARE ONLY IN DANGER OF GOVERMENTS.

jarwillie · 07-04-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by milesteg

Tax us? No. If anything it's designed to tax and regulate corporations. And fuck corporations.

Have you not been keeping up on the new legislation? We could possibly see the biggest tax increase in American history because of going "green". Have you been paying attention to the cap and trade bill? This will affect anyone who has a utility bill. Not only with taxes, but also with the increase of the electric company when they are paying more taxes and trying to find ways to meet standards. This will affect people selling and buying homes.

You do realize that information was forced to be withheld before they voted on this bill? Information that was stating that it is a big possibility that global warming has been caused by the sun and not humans?

milesteg · 07-04-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by jarwillie

Have you not been keeping up on the new legislation? We could possibly see the biggest tax increase in American history because of going "green". Have you been paying attention to the cap and trade bill? This will affect anyone who has a utility bill. Not only with taxes, but also with the increase of the electric company when they are paying more taxes and trying to find ways to meet standards. This will affect people selling and buying homes.

You do realize that information was forced to be withheld before they voted on this bill? Information that was stating that it is a big possibility that global warming has been caused by the sun and not humans?

I stopped reading your last post because it went completely "off-topic" of the new information of man made global warming being hoax.

I honestly don't give a rat's ass about our tax increases and utility increases. So what, global warming/climate change won't kill us all in 10 years, big deal, do you really think we should continue to mass pollute the earth and the ozone?

The cold hard fact is we just don't have the god damned oil. Who does? Middle Eastern Tyrants, Eastern European Warlords, and Hugo fucking Chavez. Now we can either learn to find parity with our environment and fuel sources or we can suffer being at the beck and call of those Nations when the oil starts to run out?

Why do you think you think this is an issue? Did you go do your homework about this issue and the cap and trade and whatnot or did you hear/read it somewhere else first? Possibly a television show or radio show or newspaper article written by someone representing a monied interest in the continued energy/environment non-regulation?

Who is it, the founding fathers? William Jennings Bryan? Teddy Roosevelt? that said Americanism was the right for corporations to pollute us into FILTH just to turn a petty profit.

I'll close with a song we all know from a Hobo named Woody Guthrie, one of the greatest American musicians to ever live. I'll include the final verse left out of the subsequent happy Disneyesque revisions:

Originally Posted by WoodyGuthrie

This Land Is Your Land

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.

It's not theirs to destroy.

jarwillie · 07-04-2009, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by milesteg

I honestly don't give a rat's ass about our tax increases and utility increases. So what, global warming/climate change won't kill us all in 10 years, big deal, do you really think we should continue to mass pollute the earth and the ozone?

The cold hard fact is we just don't have the god damned oil. Who does? Middle Eastern Tyrants, Eastern European Warlords, and Hugo fucking Chavez. Now we can either learn to find parity with our environment and fuel sources or we can suffer being at the beck and call of those Nations when the oil starts to run out?

Why do you think you think this is an issue? Did you go do your homework about this issue and the cap and trade and whatnot or did you hear/read it somewhere else first? Possibly a television show or radio show or newspaper article written by someone representing a monied interest in the continued energy/environment non-regulation?

Honestly, you are just rambling on or I am not getting my issue across correctly.

No we shouldn't keep getting oil from other countries. But the best thing NOW would be to tap into the oil in America that can last us for 300 years. That would be a good start. But these environmentalists have some hard on to protest it. When in reality it would not hurt the surrounding enviroments.

The next reality is the fact that we will keep giving up all of this money to a bunch of bozos in the government who has never created shit.

Who created EVERYTHING we use? Private companies have created everything. If the government would keep their hands out of the pot. Then we would see private companies creating the future and cleaner ways to fuel things.

and yes, I have studied the issues myself. The bill is everywhere and to me it is a big deal. Because it could have a huge affect on America an affect I think would be negative.

and honestly, America isn't the biggest pollutant. Especially for how many people live here in the USA. Things have actually started to become cleaner.

The cold hard facts? or the facts that you want to see?

milesteg · 07-04-2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by jarwillie

Honestly, you are just rambling on or I am not getting my issue across correctly.

Prolly teh pot, my bad.

No we shouldn't keep getting oil from other countries. But the best thing NOW would be to tap into the oil in America that can last us for 300 years. That would be a good start. But these environmentalists have some hard on to protest it. When in reality it would not hurt the surrounding enviroments.

1. We're not of the same mind about the ammount of American fossill fuels.
2. Exxon Valdez, stripped land, sink holes and other types of spills or fires are the reality of drilling for oil. It does effect the surrounding environs.

The next reality is the fact that we will keep giving up all of this money to a bunch of bozos in the government who has never created shit.

Quit saying that we keep giving up this or that money to the government. We don't. The government takes what it wants and it's not even the government. We have a debt based economy. We basically pay the Bank to extend our government the credit it wants.

But the government has created shit. They created the highways, they created the space shuttle, they created social services and they're not even in the creation business, they're in the administrative business.

Who created EVERYTHING we use? Private companies have created everything.

Demonstrably untrue ,see above statement.

If the government would keep their hands out of the pot. Then we would see private companies creating the future and cleaner ways to fuel things.

No we wouldn't. Private companies can only create ONE thing. That is greater cost reduction. By mechanics, companies do not, have not and will not create safer, cleaner or better products when cost prohibits.

and yes, I have studied the issues myself. The bill is everywhere and to me it is a big deal. Because it could have a huge affect on America an affect I think would be negative.

It's not a big deal and the fact that you've seen it everywhere just proves it's being rallied against by big bussiness. We're fighting two illegal and unjust wars man, we have a president who's gone off the fuckin reservation and a congress that's showing itself to flat out be owned by big bussiness and you think an environmental tax is an issue?

Who the FUCK is against the environment? Honestly, no one is. So why the fuck is there anti-environmentalism out there? It's soulless fuckin corporate interests. Don't buy in. Don't take your eye off the ball.

and honestly, America isn't the biggest pollutant. Especially for how many people live here in the USA. Things have actually started to become cleaner.

Irrelevant. Completely fucking irrelevant. If China was to go jump off a bridge should we do it too? No, of course not. But if we want to throw stones then we better be sure our glass house has a crystal cleaned finish.

The cold hard facts? or the facts that you want to see?

Okay, so that we're on the same page. You DON'T think our government should take steps to create a green/more environmentally cleaner infrastructure at the cost of a consumer tax hike on the energy consumption causing the problems?

I thought you Libertarianesque Conservatives supported consumptive taxation? IE you pay for what YOU use?

jarwillie · 07-04-2009, 05:48 PM

I was going to shoot back with some other things. But I feel like we would just shoot back and forth the same thing in different wording.

We are both bullheaded and we have a different view on how to make things better.

milesteg · 07-05-2009, 08:08 AM

Jar it's this simple, do you support our government going green? If not, why not, cause you don't want to be taxed for your electricity or home?

Look, electric companies and home owners are part of the problem, not me. Why shouldn't.....ya know...I just don't take any of this shit seriously.

FUCK Republicans. FUCK ppl who don't want to pay taxes but also won't speak out against the IRS. You're all just greedy and miserly. I can't STAND listening about how rich fucks, home owners and corporations feel like they don't want to pay taxes when I'm taxed at an enormously higher percentage than them as is anyone at or below the poverty line.

Sure we might pay less in income tax but the sales tax is the same for us and a much greater percentage of our income goes to sales tax than it does for ppl squirrelling their money away in banks, stocks or equity.

Pay your god damned taxes already ppl!