Sign on the hospital room door of a US Navy SEAL - Page 3

SinsChampion · 07-03-2009, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by milesteg

You're right sins. I should have qualified my blanket statement.

Anyone who has joined the military since 2002 did so out of either ego or stupidity.

Ego we've covered. But if finances, tuition or opportunity is your goal then there are a thousand, safer, more sure, less craven avenues to take.

Point of fact. The GI Bill. Tons of men and women signed up for the armed services in the late 70s because it offered free tuition and a 20,000$ something payout upon completion. Well Reagan killed it. He just up and fucking killed it. Men and women in uniform like both of my parents still had to complete their service but all their benefits were nixed.

No company can back out of a contract like that.

And that wasn't the only time the government has done that either. In fact Bush did it recently, I believe two separate times. One need only google "Walter Reed" to find out the quality of care the government is giving to soldiers. Basically, the armed services will NOT take care of you and will ROB you and RIP YOU OFF at every turn.

If you sign up because you thought you'd get free college or some other beenfit then you're fucking stupid for not paying attention to the government's abhorrent track record when it comes to honoring it's commitments to soldiers.

I can't argue with either one of these statements, at all.

jarwillie · 07-03-2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by milesteg

You're right sins. I should have qualified my blanket statement.

Anyone who has joined the military since 2002 did so out of either ego or stupidity.

Ego we've covered. But if finances, tuition or opportunity is your goal then there are a thousand, safer, more sure, less craven avenues to take.

Point of fact. The GI Bill. Tons of men and women signed up for the armed services in the late 70s because it offered free tuition and a 20,000$ something payout upon completion. Well Reagan killed it. He just up and fucking killed it. Men and women in uniform like both of my parents still had to complete their service but all their benefits were nixed.

No company can back out of a contract like that.

And that wasn't the only time the government has done that either. In fact Bush did it recently, I believe two separate times. One need only google "Walter Reed" to find out the quality of care the government is giving to soldiers. Basically, the armed services will NOT take care of you and will ROB you and RIP YOU OFF at every turn.

If you sign up because you thought you'd get free college or some other beenfit then you're fucking stupid for not paying attention to the government's abhorrent track record when it comes to honoring it's commitments to soldiers.

Here recently Obama said soldiers who are hurt in war need to start helping pay for the bills they may have accumulate being hurt in war. That was completely stomped out after a a day or two of him saying it and hasn't been brought up since. It's sad what presidents have done in that sense.

Captain Smoker · 07-03-2009, 11:26 AM

I cant believe how stupid Military service people are.

"I got these wounds defending the freedom of my country"

I would have pissed on his door. How can people be so ignorant? let alone people who actually serve?

SinsChampion · 07-03-2009, 11:28 AM

It's damn shameful how soldiers get treated by their own government here. As much as I understand the government using the argument that they are fighting for your freedom or whatever (which doesn't hold water with me in regards to most of what our soldiers get sent to do now-a-days, but I digress), and praising the troops in public, I don't get the duplicity of trying to fuck them over behind the scenes. But I attribute this to scumbaggishness in the governmental circles. Maybe I just feel that you need to delineate between the hatred of what the government does and hating on the soldiers themselves.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Scorched Earth

Hit the books, Miles. I will try and address each of your points in turn.

1. Every war the USA has been involved in is directly related to your personal freedom.

Korea? Vietnam? Beruit? Iraq? Afghanistan? Greece? The Philipines? Bosnia? Kuwait?

We can debate the merits of each situation but how can you say any of those related to the freedom of any American at home?

2. War of 1812, Spanish American War, Civil War, Texas War of Independence, Mexican War, and Franco-American Wars all happened before WW1 and were threats to our sovereignty caused by "warlords".

War of 1812 - Invasion yes, had the brits won it'd be remembered as a reuinification though and several men and women in the united states would have felt the same.

Spanish American War- You mean the one that we declared a half hour after blowing Spain's navy to hell and then island hopping the carribean and taking over Puerto Rico?

Texas War of Independence....WTF? Stealing land from Mexico? Texas wasn't even a fuckin state at that point.

Mexican War - Read Henry David Thoreau "On Civil Disobediance" even at the time learned men knew that war was bullshit.

Franco American wars? Do you mean the French Indian wars?

Explain how my freedoms were ever threatened or affected.

3. Glad to hear you are not a pacifist but that just makes the rest of your position absurd and inconsistent at best and downright selfish at worst if you agree with the struggle that has given you your freedom but don't believe others deserve those same rights fundamentally.

Do you really think war is comparable to singular human interaction. Jesus Christ man war is NOT A FUCKING GAME! Do you understand that. It is NOT a fight fought between kings or presidents. It's not nature, it's wholly unnatural, so unnatural that our stomachs turn and often lose their contents when we see even the photos of war.

4. I have heard many Iraqis say many things in many forums, news, blogs, interviews. Every single one has been grateful for the sacrifice to grant them freedom and return their country to their own hands. Some moved to the point of tears.

Awww. Do you understand why that is completely invalid observation or would you like me to tell you?

5. At this point in your response you actually endorse our system of government and its virtues by pointing out we were able to get rid of a bad leader without waiting for him to die/over throwing him. The system works, thanks for making my argument for me here.

The system does NOT work. If I put bread in a toaster oven, and it blows a fuse and starts a fire and burns down my house but in doing so cooks the toast, then the toaster still did not work.

The ends do NOT justify the means my good man. Our system only "works" if the will of the people in electing their officials is respectd and expidited. Eights years of a pretender to the throne does not a representative republic make.

6. Saddam was not elected. Elections have more than one candidate and normally the split isa not 100/0 in the results. Please refer to the recent Iraqu elections for a picture of what elections look like.

I don't want to insult you Scorched. But you're showing a marked ignorance of foreign politics, especially in Iraq right now. What has happened in Iraq with the purple fingers was not democracy, it was a photo op for Americans. The situation on the ground is anything but democratic. Families with money and power (probably the ones with electricity and internet too[ponder that]) have taken over control of different cities and counties and they are driving out or murdering their enemies carrying out blood fueds and other tribal shit that's 1,000 years old.

It is not freedom, it is not democracy, it is not better than Saddam. At least with Saddam in power the water was clean and hospitals were open.

7. Gore v. Bushg was an example of our system once again working. Checks and balances made sure the correct election results were enforced. Gore received a popular vote but in accordance with the Constitution Bush was given the Presidency because he won the electoral vote. The Electoral system being a very special and specific system specially instituted by the founding fathers. If they wanted a straight popular vote that would have been a lot easier to outline in the Constitution, believe me.

Rush says it and you repeat it eh? That wasn't the problem with Bush v. Gore. We've had other presidents lose the popular and win the electorial college, it sucks but it's not a big deal. Bush v. Gore is significant because Al Gore had more votes than George W., winning florida and the electorial college and the supreme court ruled that the result of the voting tally was to be ignored and AWARDED florida's electorial votes to Bush.

Do you understand the problem now?

8. At this point you just seem to flaunt some kind of material wealth over me and give some by the book statement about the military being for the stupid, so I won't really dignify this point with a response other than Benoit yourself.

See my other posts. I'm not wealthy, at all. I'm dirt poor but I was raised in affluent areas and I have educated myself.

To get at this point, would you feel as proudly for some soldier in say, Venezuela who joins the military and kills who they tell him to kill?

8. At first I thought your position was plain ignorance, now I see it is actually willful ignorance. If you are uncomfortable with me saying that I am sorry but I call them like I see them. Would you prefer me to call a dog a cat as well?

No, I would prefer you knew the differences between a dog and a cat before you decided to tell one to "fetch". IE learn about the world.

Sheikh Zubeer · 07-03-2009, 11:43 AM

What I found telling was how the U.S. military was caught fabricating stories about incidents involving their personal.

You can call it "keeping up moral", I call it deceit and lies.

Remember that football player who was killed in Afghanistan and how they spun a hilarious story of him being killed fighting the Taliban and awarded him medals posthumously, and created media buzz for his valiant actions ?

Turns out it was it didn't happen that way at all.

The dude was killed by OTHER American soldiers, in a friendly fire incident, and they lied about it to the public and made up a bogus story.

Same thing with that U.S. female soldier who was captured in Iraq in the beginning of the war.

They made a bogus story of how she broke out and how brave she was, when in fact, that was a complete fabrication and lie.

Her own Iraqi captors helped save her , and she was not rescued.

This indicates a pattern of deception and lies from the U.S. military, no wonder its soldiers actually believe what they're being told.

Armies are like big brainwashing camps, they lie, deceive, inculcate it's members , like a cult.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sheikh Zubeer

What I found telling was how the U.S. military was caught fabricating stories about incidents involving their personal.

You can call it "keeping up moral", I call it deceit and lies.

Remember that football player who was killed in Afghanistan and how they spun a hilarious story of him being killed fighting the Taliban and awarded him medals posthumously, and created media buzz for his valiant actions ?

Turns out it was it didn't happen that way at all.

The dude was killed by OTHER American soldiers, in a friendly fire incident, and they lied about it to the public and made up a bogus story.

Same thing with that U.S. female soldier who was captured in Iraq in the beginning of the war.

They made a bogus story of how she broke out and how brave she was, when in fact, that was a complete fabrication and lie.

Her own Iraqi captors helped save her , and she was not rescued.

This indicates a pattern of deception and lies from the U.S. military, no wonder its soldiers actually believe what they're being told.

Armies are like big brainwashing camps, they lie, deceive, inculcate it's members , like a cult.

The male soldier was Pat Tillman. He was killed in "friendly fire" even though the forensics say he was killed at close range, point blank, double tap, the army maintains he was killed in a friendly fire accident at several yards away.

Pat Hillman and his family are all Democrats. Pat didn't support the Iraq invasion. His parents have tried and tried to get his death investigated but nothing ever materializes.

The female's name was Jessica Lynch. Her convoy was attacked and rolled and she sustained a serious broken leg. Iraqi soldiers who'd never seen a female soldier before rushed her to the IRAQI hospital, where Iraqi doctors gave her phenomenal medical care and saved her life.

3 times they tried to contact her base to pick her up but the base wouldn't come. Then one night the US Army sends in special forces, they kill the power to the hospital and remove Lynch by force.
Some Iraqi patients on life support died due to the power loss.

Jessica Lynch says she doesn't remember what happened. The doctors say they treated her with care and dignity. The US state department goes out and says she was gang raped by 20 hardcore Iraqi terrorists before being raped and beaten at the hospital.

The doctors maintain that she was brought in fully clothed and that in her condition, had someone tried to rape her she would have died.

Our government, is lying to us.

SinsChampion · 07-03-2009, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by milesteg

The male soldier was Pat Tillman. He was killed in "friendly fire" even though the forensics say he was killed at close range, point blank, double tap, the army maintains he was killed in a friendly fire accident at several yards away.

Pat Hillman and his family are all Democrats. Pat didn't support the Iraq invasion. His parents have tried and tried to get his death investigated but nothing ever materializes.

The female's name was Jessica Lynch. Her convoy was attacked and rolled and she sustained a serious broken leg. Iraqi soldiers who'd never seen a female soldier before rushed her to the IRAQI hospital, where Iraqi doctors gave her phenomenal medical care and saved her life.

3 times they tried to contact her base to pick her up but the base wouldn't come. Then one night the US Army sends in special forces, they kill the power to the hospital and remove Lynch by force.
Some Iraqi patients on life support died due to the power loss.

Jessica Lynch says she doesn't remember what happened. The doctors say they treated her with care and dignity. The US state department goes out and says she was gang raped by 20 hardcore Iraqi terrorists before being raped and beaten at the hospital.

The doctors maintain that she was brought in fully clothed and that in her condition, had someone tried to rape her she would have died.

Our government, is lying to us.

Quick question - as maybe I'm misinformed or misconstrued what you were trying to say (it does happen!). I was under the impression Pat Tillman absolutely volunteered to serve, directly after the 9/11 incident(s). By your earlier logic, doesn't that mean that he absolutely supported the invasion?

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by SinsChampion

Quick question - as maybe I'm misinformed or misconstrued what you were trying to say (it does happen!). I was under the impression Pat Tillman absolutely volunteered to serve, directly after the 9/11 incident(s). By your earlier logic, doesn't that mean that he absolutely supported the invasion?

I don't understand.

Pat Hillman gave up the NFL contract and signed up for the Army to fight in Afghanistan.

He did not support the invasion of Iraq.

Iraq and Afghanistan/911 have nothing to do with one another.

SinsChampion · 07-03-2009, 02:23 PM

That is what I was asking - thank you for the clarification.

Scorched Earth · 07-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Pat Tillman (since you want to drag him into this how about you spell his name right?) WAS killed by friendly fire and it is a tragedy. He was shot at close enough range that all three shots from the m-16 burst hit him in the forehead. He was shot by a fellow soldier taking cover with him behind a car because he told the other soldier to stop crying and be a Ranger.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Scorched Earth

Pat Tillman (since you want to drag him into this how about you spell his name right?) WAS killed by friendly fire and it is a tragedy. He was shot at close enough range that all three shots from the m-16 burst hit him in the forehead. He was shot by a fellow soldier taking cover with him behind a car because he told the other soldier to stop crying and be a Ranger.

Awww shucks, geez I knew it was all a big misunderstanding. He was a good Army Ranger until the very end and apple pie and blue eyes and babies and Jesus!

Scorched Earth · 07-03-2009, 04:15 PM

OH yeah. And you ARE an idiot, Miles. I pwned the fuck out of you point by point and all you can do is play semantics and present strawman arguments of what I said?
Just a couple glaring errors in your "rebuttal" I will point out and that is all the energy you deserve out of me.

And upon reading it you are so skewed in off base all I can really do is chuckle. I am not going to dignify your drivel with a response other than I don't listen to Rush, I studied that Bush v Gore case in a constitutional law class and understand it up and down, wrote briefs about it for the class. I was referring to the Franco American Naval Wars not the French Indian Wars but go ahead and add that to the list, dipshit. THere were more I could have listed too but I doubt you would have heard of them so I left them out so as not to confuse you further.

Nothing else you had to say addressed any of my points or made any ground in your argument so I will leave it alone.

Scorched Earth · 07-03-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by milesteg

Awww shucks, geez I knew it was all a big misunderstanding. He was a good Army Ranger until the very end and apple pie and blue eyes and babies and Jesus!

I didn't say it was a misunderstanding, you idiot. I said the guy right next to him essentially put his barrel against his head and pulled the trigger. You are really grasping today, aren't you, sweety?

Scorched Earth · 07-03-2009, 04:18 PM

Now, excuse me I am going to go rep some people so I can come back and neg you several times.