Sign on the hospital room door of a US Navy SEAL - Page 2

GOMT · 07-02-2009, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Scorched Earth

You guys are idiots, you know that?

Take Iraq. Imagine yourself there with anti-governmental ideas like this 10 years ago? Now imagine the firing squad.

You should pull your head out of your ass and realize this self righteous speech you guys shit out non-stop was not bought with your own bravery but with the bravery of better men than you will ever be. You may oppose "all war" more power to you, but you should realize if we didn't have the military we do warlords would run up in here and kill you and fuck your sisters and daughters. Just because you are a whiny pacifist doesn't mean the rest of the world wouldn't eat you alive if your big brothers with machine guns weren't stranding right behind you. How delusional you are.

I have never heard a single Iraqi on TV say they wish they had Saddam back. You should stop thinking about yourself as an American and all the rights that have already been won for you and start thinking about the rights of the world to be free and elect their own leaders and not have to live under the boot of a dictator. Fuck you guys. You are ignorant and are so inside your bubble as Americans you think your self righteous bullshit is bravery and don't realize this soapbox you are standing on is the same soapbox our boys are fighting to give to the whole world.

If the united states is all of the sudden in the business of overthrowing petty dictators I have a list of countries I can you give you....problem is were in the business of overthrowing petty dictators that somehow benefit american corporations...so dont turn this into a free speech issue or whatever...the united states SHOULDNT be the worlds police and sure as fuck shouldnt be meddling in the affairs of SOVEREIGN states or overthrowing there goverments. Keep mind that us overthrowing sadaam has empowered the radical shi'tte muslims whos loyalties lie with Iran

spaz · 07-02-2009, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by SinsChampion

Except for the guys who joined the national guard because that one extra weekend a month meant a little better life for their family right?

Oh yeah, and except for anybody who joined the army so they could get money and go to college, too, right?

Or what about the 18 year old kid who is not gonna be able to get into college and has no marketable skills or trades, who joins the military to be able to do something with their life??

Look, I'm not advocating war in any sense of the word. I am especially not advocating what is going on in Iraq or Afghanistan. However, your hatred for the politicians and the system that created this fiasco really is misplaced if you lash out at Joe and Jane Average that just happens to be in the military. While I am sure that some of the enlisted folk are gung-ho and wanna kill them some arabs or whatever bullshit they tell themselves, I am equally sure that not 100% of the enlisted folk are that way. Blanket statements and especially blanket hatred for military personnell is just as narrow-minded as blanket statements and hatred of an ethnic, socio-economic, or religious group.

Regardless of how shitty one's finiancial situation is, killing someone else to get paid doesn't make it right.

milesteg · 07-02-2009, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Scorched Earth

You guys are idiots, you know that?

Take Iraq. Imagine yourself there with anti-governmental ideas like this 10 years ago? Now imagine the firing squad.

You should pull your head out of your ass and realize this self righteous speech you guys shit out non-stop was not bought with your own bravery but with the bravery of better men than you will ever be.

No it wasn't. Not one fucking war America has ever fought has bought me one lick of freedom.

You may oppose "all war" more power to you, but you should realize if we didn't have the military we do warlords would run up in here and kill you and fuck your sisters and daughters.

We didn't have a standing Army until after WWI. Now tell me, which warlords came over to America and killed ppl? I'll wait.......

Just because you are a whiny pacifist doesn't mean the rest of the world wouldn't eat you alive if your big brothers with machine guns weren't stranding right behind you. How delusional you are.

I'm not a pacifist. I just don't like wars. I'll kill someone for looking at me wrong though. War is a different sort of thing though.

I have never heard a single Iraqi on TV say they wish they had Saddam back.

1. Have you ever heard a single Iraqi say anything?

2. Have you ever heard a single American say they want Cheney back?

You should stop thinking about yourself as an American and all the rights that have already been won for you and start thinking about the rights of the world to be free and elect their own leaders and not have to live under the boot of a dictator.

You mean like Iraq where Saddam was elected or do you mean like America where George Bush stole the election from John Kerry and Al Gore?

Fuck you guys. You are ignorant

That is not a criticism you're in any position to level at me....ever.

and are so inside your bubble as Americans you think your self righteous bullshit is bravery and don't realize this soapbox you are standing on is the same soapbox our boys are fighting to give to the whole world.

"Our boys are fighting to give to the world?"

You should study more. You obviously don't like soldiers either cause our government is RAPING THEM.

Look, I get it, you're blue collar, lower class. Well I'm upper class and allow me to explain it clearly for you. The military is for dumb uneducated blue collar hicks and foreigners....why? Cause nobody with any power wants their own kid to die for their economic gain, and that's the ONLY reason America has EVER fought ANY war.

SinsChampion · 07-02-2009, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by spaz

Regardless of how shitty one's finiancial situation is, killing someone else to get paid doesn't make it right.

Which is why I said I don't support the war. Supporting the soldiers, however, to me at least, is a completely different proposition.

spaz · 07-02-2009, 11:00 PM

I thought everyone knows that if you join any faction of the military, you get to kill people!

SinsChampion · 07-02-2009, 11:05 PM

Ummmm....nope. When I was in college, I knew more than a couple of people who joined the military in order to pay for school. Only one of them was anything resembling enthusiastic about the military portion of the proceedings (and this guy was seriously gung-ho, it was a tad disturbing) - the others were resigned to do what it took to get college paid for.

The Law · 07-02-2009, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by SinsChampion

Ummmm....nope. When I was in college, I knew more than a couple of people who joined the military in order to pay for school. Only one of them was anything resembling enthusiastic about the military portion of the proceedings (and this guy was seriously gung-ho, it was a tad disturbing) - the others were resigned to do what it took to get college paid for.

wouldn't that be defined as mercenary.

spaz · 07-02-2009, 11:14 PM

So thats an acceptable trade off?

I'll kill for my country as long as they pay my tuition.

Regardless of the reasoning, If you join the military you could die or you could kill someone else.

Not something I would ever sign up for.

Scorched Earth · 07-02-2009, 11:58 PM

Hit the books, Miles. I will try and address each of your points in turn.

1. Every war the USA has been involved in is directly related to your personal freedom.

2. War of 1812, Spanish American War, Civil War, Texas War of Independence, Mexican War, and Franco-American Wars all happened before WW1 and were threats to our sovereignty caused by "warlords".

3. Glad to hear you are not a pacifist but that just makes the rest of your position absurd and inconsistent at best and downright selfish at worst if you agree with the struggle that has given you your freedom but don't believe others deserve those same rights fundamentally.

4. I have heard many Iraqis say many things in many forums, news, blogs, interviews. Every single one has been grateful for the sacrifice to grant them freedom and return their country to their own hands. Some moved to the point of tears.

5. At this point in your response you actually endorse our system of government and its virtues by pointing out we were able to get rid of a bad leader without waiting for him to die/over throwing him. The system works, thanks for making my argument for me here.

6. Saddam was not elected. Elections have more than one candidate and normally the split isa not 100/0 in the results. Please refer to the recent Iraqu elections for a picture of what elections look like.

7. Gore v. Bushg was an example of our system once again working. Checks and balances made sure the correct election results were enforced. Gore received a popular vote but in accordance with the Constitution Bush was given the Presidency because he won the electoral vote. The Electoral system being a very special and specific system specially instituted by the founding fathers. If they wanted a straight popular vote that would have been a lot easier to outline in the Constitution, believe me.

8. At this point you just seem to flaunt some kind of material wealth over me and give some by the book statement about the military being for the stupid, so I won't really dignify this point with a response other than Benoit yourself.

8. At first I thought your position was plain ignorance, now I see it is actually willful ignorance. If you are uncomfortable with me saying that I am sorry but I call them like I see them. Would you prefer me to call a dog a cat as well?

9.

Camel Hound · 07-03-2009, 01:13 AM

Miles vs scorched is getting intense!

El Duderino · 07-03-2009, 06:56 AM

Meh!

jarwillie · 07-03-2009, 10:54 AM

jarwillie · 07-03-2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Scorched Earth

You guys are idiots, you know that?

Take Iraq. Imagine yourself there with anti-governmental ideas like this 10 years ago? Now imagine the firing squad.

You should pull your head out of your ass and realize this self righteous speech you guys shit out non-stop was not bought with your own bravery but with the bravery of better men than you will ever be. You may oppose "all war" more power to you, but you should realize if we didn't have the military we do warlords would run up in here and kill you and fuck your sisters and daughters. Just because you are a whiny pacifist doesn't mean the rest of the world wouldn't eat you alive if your big brothers with machine guns weren't stranding right behind you. How delusional you are.

I have never heard a single Iraqi on TV say they wish they had Saddam back. You should stop thinking about yourself as an American and all the rights that have already been won for you and start thinking about the rights of the world to be free and elect their own leaders and not have to live under the boot of a dictator. Fuck you guys. You are ignorant and are so inside your bubble as Americans you think your self righteous bullshit is bravery and don't realize this soapbox you are standing on is the same soapbox our boys are fighting to give to the whole world.

to add on to this, Iraqi's have told the U.S. military that they are more Iraqi than most Iraqi's themselves.

SinsChampion · 07-03-2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bettie

wouldn't that be defined as mercenary.

In a broad sense of the word, yes. However the argument, as I understood it, was that people who join the armed forces do it out of a sense of their own ego and because they enjoy killing or the prospect of doing so. I am simply pointing out that there are a myriad of reasons for joining the armed forces - and they do not necessarily have anything to do with ego or the desire to kill, kill, kill.

milesteg · 07-03-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by SinsChampion

In a broad sense of the word, yes. However the argument, as I understood it, was that people who join the armed forces do it out of a sense of their own ego and because they enjoy killing or the prospect of doing so. I am simply pointing out that there are a myriad of reasons for joining the armed forces - and they do not necessarily have anything to do with ego or the desire to kill, kill, kill.

You're right sins. I should have qualified my blanket statement.

Anyone who has joined the military since 2002 did so out of either ego or stupidity.

Ego we've covered. But if finances, tuition or opportunity is your goal then there are a thousand, safer, more sure, less craven avenues to take.

Point of fact. The GI Bill. Tons of men and women signed up for the armed services in the late 70s because it offered free tuition and a 20,000$ something payout upon completion. Well Reagan killed it. He just up and fucking killed it. Men and women in uniform like both of my parents still had to complete their service but all their benefits were nixed.

No company can back out of a contract like that.

And that wasn't the only time the government has done that either. In fact Bush did it recently, I believe two separate times. One need only google "Walter Reed" to find out the quality of care the government is giving to soldiers. Basically, the armed services will NOT take care of you and will ROB you and RIP YOU OFF at every turn.

If you sign up because you thought you'd get free college or some other beenfit then you're fucking stupid for not paying attention to the government's abhorrent track record when it comes to honoring it's commitments to soldiers.